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James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.08.27 01:20:12 -
[1] - Quote
I'm sure this has been asked 1000+ times. I'm just curious what people think.
It seems the problem in Null is that someone figured out you can win virtually any war in Null if you just build a fleet with enough players in it so the other fleets are always outnumbered a gazillion to one. So lots of players, wanting to be on the winning side, all joined one big massive superfleet. (Or a few big superfleets, but not many).
Now the superfleets wander around bored because nobody will fight them, and all the other fleets wander around bored because they cant' find any small scale battles. Everyone is bored.
And, it's not like CCP is unaware of this problem or doesn't care. They've been trying very hard to solve it.
First they nerfed Jumping, so the fleets couldn't project power as easily. But that doesn't seem to have solved anything.
The fleet can still slow boat to its destination. (And when a huge horde moves through null, they will surely face no opposition.) If anything that made it harder for the smaller fleets because they can't use hit and run tactics very well now.
Now we've got changes to SOV, and citadels. I hope the citadels help. Maybe Titans will have a harder time conquering Citadel systems? But I'm not holding my breath that this will solve the whole issue.
Is there some way to shift the balance of power back to small gangs? |
James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 01:24:49 -
[2] - Quote
Something I've been thinking about is maybe lowering the "security status" of every large fleet so they have reduced access to high sec.
I would think that Concord would feel threatened by them. Since they are basically player controlled versions of Concord.
It stands to reason that any sufficiently large player controlled operation would begin to have a big enough impact on NPC politics that it attracts the attention of the major factions, and those factions would either ally with it, or oppose it. Sure Goonswarm is as much a "pirate faction" as say.... Mordu's Legion. |
James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 01:51:40 -
[3] - Quote
Cristl wrote:You think reducing access to highsec will fix null?
How does that work exactly?
The only way to fix null is to weaken the big fleets. Make forming big fleets less of a win strategy.
Another possibility, better than lowering their sec status, would be for Concord to not protect them in high sec space. The assumption would be that they are so big they don't need protection? |
James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 02:13:24 -
[4] - Quote
That would be true if indeed it were human nature.
Why are there small gangs in Los Angeles? By your logic, shouldn't everyone be joining one giant super gang?
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James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 02:35:28 -
[5] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:James Cannon Fodder wrote:
Why are there small gangs in Los Angeles?
Your definition of small and mine vary considerably. Most LA gangs number more than the entire CFC each. In the town I grew up in there was a gang of six bikers. That's a small gang. In the big American cities you are looking at gangs with membership in the thousands. Mr Epeen 
Good point.
So a better question is: why hasn't LA been overrun by a version of "Goonswarm" yet? Or am just that out of touch?
Maybe it has?
But in real life there are things that prevent it usually. If nothing else, when a force starts to dominate it will have schizms and split apart. But even before that point, a gang that begins to become poweful enough to threaten the interests of the major political powers of LA would attract attention from them. |
James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 02:43:58 -
[6] - Quote
It's also true that sometimes in history "Goonswarm" type effects have happened for real. The Mongolian Horde was basically a goonswarm effect. The steppe lands where Ghengis Khan started out might even be thought of as his version of "null sec", since nobody was really keeping order out there before he came along.
So then they rolled through China, Persia, the Russias, and pretty much everywhere. Only sparing Europe because they didn't like fighting in the rain.
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James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 03:09:43 -
[7] - Quote
Definitely agree that it's problematic to have corps operating out of high sec, and safe from direct conflict.
What if superfleets could conquer sections of high sec, and high sec could expand into null? Would that help?
Suppose Goonswarm took a Gallente system and then the Gallente declared war on them. So now you're a carebear in the Scope, and the Scope now has a wardec with Goonswarm. They can gank you in high sec, and you can gank them.
You could join factional warfare for the Gallente and get tasked with killing members of the Goons, or fighting in Goon controlled sections of Null to establish Gallente sovereignty there.
Would that be better or worse? |
James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 03:16:53 -
[8] - Quote
That's an intersting idea. In order to keep the server from becoming impossible huge, maybe old, depleted, systems would have their jump gates decomissioned? So they vanish from the map, and a new system gets added?
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James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.08.27 03:30:56 -
[9] - Quote
I guess I don't really know how the mechanics would work.
It seems like there should be a tipping point where an alliance that reaches a certain size becomes a faction, and gets treated like a faction by Concord and the others.
Concord is a police force. In theory (although perhaps not in practice), it doesn't have the resources to get involved in interfaction battles. One reason why "factional warfare" even is allowed, right? (I haven't participated in it, so I'm not sure how it works exactly, though.)
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James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 03:34:15 -
[10] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:How about waiting for the new sov system to be up and running and then tweaked?
Oh and how about stop bitching and whining on the forums because your corporation of 10 can't do anything.
I just want to see the battles "mydingaling" was talking about.
I'm not in any corp or alliance right now. I haven't had time to dedicate any serious time to this game for a year now, getting maybe one day off a week (sometimes 13 day stretches.)
Joining Goons is always an option. But a boring one. Joining a "corporation of 10 that can't do anything" is also an option. But also a boring one.
I want a not boring option. |
James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 03:50:46 -
[11] - Quote
Technically, we can start and manage colonies, but I see your point.
I guess we don't have a way to take actual control over an inhabited world. We can't even remove other players' colonies. So we're not really much of a threat that way.
How would a large player alliance compare with a faction like Guristas, though? Is that a fair comparison?
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James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 04:05:55 -
[12] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:James Cannon Fodder wrote:
Try going outside.
I can do that without paying a monthly subscription.
Quote:
The only correct thing you have alluded to is eve having a social problem compounded by poorly executed mechanics.
Yeah. And I'd like to think that is enough to be worth discussing. |
James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.08.27 05:00:44 -
[13] - Quote
Lol. So now I need to structure the thread's game mechanics so there is more reward.
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James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 05:23:06 -
[14] - Quote
I used to operate in null. A long time ago when I had a sane job. I dont' know for sure what SOV even matters. The issue of having fleet battles is trying to get factions to a near enough equal size so the fight isn't a foregone conclusion before it even begins.
It seems the problem in need of a solution is that, once a certain fraction of the population has all joined the same faction, there is no longer anything to fight about.
At that point, they have effectively created a high sec outside of highsec. Only difference is the occasional interceptor or stealth bomber popping in to try and gank a mining barge.
Perhaps a true wildland is just an impossible ideal? Probably someone will set up a stable empire in WH space sometime soon too. |
James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 05:27:48 -
[15] - Quote
Webvan wrote:
Have you ever considered so does CCP?
I think they give it quite a lot of thought.
But neither they, nor anyone else, appears to have been able to come up with a way to keep things interesting.
I don't have any good ideas. I've been throwing out bad ideas on this thread just to see what the discussion brings. The input people have given has been helpful in illuminating this issue.
I think this is also a problem in real life politics. Things sometimes just get so stable they stagnate. |
James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 05:57:37 -
[16] - Quote
So what about this possibility? :
I'm thinking about how things work in the mafia (as near as I understand it anyway - which may not be quite correct.) As I understand it, one mafia gang can declare war on another mafia gang, and still not be betraying the mafia leadership. So long as they don't attack anyone who's not involved, and don't harm the interests of those above them, they can kill one another, even though it means they are killing fellow mafia.
So now imagine if corporations in a big alliance could do that.
Suppose corporation A decides that corporation B is now going to be purple. A can shoot B. B can shoot A. However everyone else in the alliance is still blue to both A and B. A and B are still blue to everyone else in the alliance.
So now corporations within a big alliance like Goonswarm could have territorial battles, but not leave Goonswarm. Not be considered AWOX'ers.
That should create some chaos and disunity. |
James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 14:35:02 -
[17] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:There is no "fix" to nullsec. Nullsec is not "broken". It was a fire and it has burned for years, now it's all ashes and embers.
"But, how do I fix these ashes?"
You can't fix them, you silly. You just start another fire elsewhere.
Another null would be nice. Maybe someday they'll improve WH space a bit.
WH would be fun if you could set up a better space station. I don't like the idea of having to deal with a community hangar. But it is cool that it's hard to permanently settle there.
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James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 15:03:31 -
[18] - Quote
The goal of a thread like this should be to ask: what can we as players do to destabilize null?
There's no point trying to tell CCP their own business. I think they know what they are doing better than I know what they are doing.
But I want to have fun. It would be fun to start a new alliance that could build up over time and go head to head with one of the superalliances. Maybe steal members from them until it's large enough to conquer some of their space.
But I don't see any way to do it. There's no unsettled space for a new fleet to get started in. Everything is already claimed. High sec is always available, but you won't make enough ISK there to build anything competitive.
Maybe rent from one superfleet until you're big enough to attack another superfleet? (Best not to try and bite the hand that feeds you.)
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James Cannon Fodder
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 15:11:49 -
[19] - Quote
It's not "broke". It's just boring.
If I decide to use my computer as a paperweight, and it won't turn on, then I could always argue that my computer isn't broke. It still works as a paperweight. |
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